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During the 14-day hearings on April 17 and 18 for the children removed from the YFZ Ranch, the main witness for the FLDS people was Dr. John Walsh, a religious-studies expert who volunteered his testimony at this time. Dr. Walsh holds a PhD in religious studies from the University of Wales and a master’s degree in Jewish studies. He has done post-doctorate work in Roman Catholicism at the University of St. Thomas in Houston and has taken 61 semester hours in Mormon religion at Brigham Young University. 

 

Although neither Dr. Walsh nor any member of his family is affiliated with the FLDS Church, he has made an intensive study of the FLDS people over the past eighteen years by reading hundreds of books on their beliefs and practices as well as conducting several personal interviews.

 

While no non-member can fully understand the FLDS culture, Dr. Walsh made a number of very perceptive observations, and his testimony merits careful consideration. The following sections are quoted verbatim from the transcript of the 14-day hearing.

 

“Different FLDS leaders have had different positions at different times about it. But there is nothing in any of the foundation scriptural works that gives the proper age for marriage.”

*        *        *

Q. From your understanding of… FLDS, is there any reward, incentive or blessing that would come from FLDS members continuing to marry underaged children to adult males, in your understanding of theology?

 

A. No… there are teachings about the principle of polygamy… and in this case, for the FLDS, that means one husband, but multiple wives… there is foundational teachings within the church, within the holy books. Any—I mean thousands and thousands of pages, there’s nothing that says: Here’s the proper age for a girl to be married.

            And there’s not greater blessing—I mean, there’s not a blessing that says thirteen is better than eighteen versus, you know, some other age.

*        *        *

Q. Okay. If—if an FLDS member was to avoid doing this practice of marrying an underage girl to an adult male—from your understanding of the theology, they would not be compromising their practice in any way?

 

A. They would not be compromising their theology, that’s correct.

*        *        *

 

[Responding to a question as to whether teen marriages were a common practice among the FLDS]

 

A. [M]ost FLDS did not marry at that age and did not start conceiving and bearing children at that age. They were usually much older.

 

Q. And so the practices that are being alleged to be a global practice is  not necessarily a practice of the church, is it?

 

A. That’s correct.

*        *        *

Q. If the children were indicating that at any age a child could marry, would that be contrary to the normal practice?

 

A. That would be contrary to the normal practice.

 

Q. The normal practice, you did say was—

 

A. And it would be contrary to the normal practice, also, under Warren Jeffs.

*        *        *

Q. Okay. Do the women—and based on your knowledge of the FDLS [sic] religion—or beliefs, can women choose when to get married?

 

A. Yes, they can. [See “Underage Marriage” and “Courtship and Marriage”]

 

Q. Do you know what the phrase “be sweet” means, sir?

 

A. Yes, I do.

 

Q. What is that?

 

A. Generally it’s… a phrase where you’re telling someone to remember to follow the example of Christ and be long suffering, being patient, not respond in anger, not—don’t let people provoke you.

 

Q. Do you know if it has the same meaning to this particular group at the ranch or do you even know what it would mean at the ranch when they tell their children “be sweet”?

 

A. That’s the general FLDS and Mormon teaching.

 

 

Q. Are you familiar with something referred to or a phenomenon referred to as the “lost boys”?

 

A. I am.

 

Q. Can you explain to me what that is, and what age of boys it affects please?

 

A. Okay. Generally the lost boys—it is not a term that is really used by the FLDS. It’s used about the FLDS. And it really comes into an issue of, as boys mature into their teenage years, occasionally they are expelled from the community.

            It’s not like, you know, a normative practice. It’s not done to save young girls for older men or something like that….

            [If boys begin to rebel against community standards] …at that point the community starts working with them, saying, this is what we’re about. We’re about, you know, God. We’re about spirituality. We’re about this lifestyle. And when boys have not, in the opinion of the elders, shown the ability to be reformed to where they want to live this lifestyle, then basically, they’re shunned from the community….

            And it would happen as they start to develop interests that are more secular oriented.

            You know, sometimes they get into drugs. Sometimes that [sic] want to watch TV. Sometimes they want to do things that are just inconsistent with the religious values of the community.

 

Q. Do you have any idea what percentage of the population it may affect?

 

A. Not statistically I don’t. It’s not that high. Generally the parents of these children love them whether they’re boys or girls. And they’re just like, you know, most American families. [See “The Truth about the ‘Lost Boys’”]

 

Q. What if it was an underage wife who called and complained to the law that she had been beaten?

 

A. It is definitely… not the pattern among the FLDS to hold people against their will or coerce them in that manner. You know, studying the FLDS… you hear stories from ex people that … were former members of the group. And they will tell you horrific stories, some of which may be true to some degree. But if you’re asking about the general practice of these people, it is absolutely contrary to their religion to hold someone against their will. If someone, for example, a wife were hit by her husband, and she called the police, it would be contrary to their religion to somehow abscond her and hide her off somewhere.

 

Q. And can you tell me, Doctor, based on your studies, do you have any opinion with regard to the family values of the LDS sects?

 

A. The only issue most people have, as far as the morality and the family values with the FLDS, would come from two standpoints. Number one, the polygamy aspect. If you take away the polygamy aspect, and it’s just whether or not a man has more than one wife, then most people would look at the FLDS and say: These are incredibly great, you know, family values.

            The second thing that some people have a problem with is they are traditionally a very conservative group. They’re normally a farming community. Normally the wives stay home and take care of the children. They… believe that’s their… primary focus. And that bothers some modern thinkers or some feminists [sic] thinkers.

            But as far as just general family values, if you take away polygamy, they would be very harmonious with just about any conservative religious group, Catholics, Baptist, or whatever, in the United States.

*        *       *

Q. Now also, you talked about the nurturing qualities of the parents. Could you expound on… that a little bit in terms of how they raise their children?

 

A. Because, as I said before, the conceiving, bearing and rearing—it’s not just having the baby, it’s also taking care of them when they’re born—it’s considered the most special, most sacred responsibility of a couple. They take great care in raising their children. People that have met FLDS children… generally find them very polite, very sweet, well disciplined, very nice people.

 

Q. What are the incidents of drug abuse within their community?

 

A. It’s almost non-existent.